What Would You Do about the Benefits Bill?

BonzoBanana they don't spend extra money on cars, you either get disability payment or the choice of a car Not both

BonzoBanana The motability scheme is a registered charity motabilityfoundation.org.uk/ The disabled are not scroungers. Most want to be able to work but cannot through ill health and mobility issues. Many can and do work though, it's really down to the level of their disabilities and everyone is different. Everybody claiming a disability benefit has to be assessed by government health practitioners. The government system on claiming it is very hard and demanding so many who would be entitled to help give up as they are not physically well enough to complete the forms and be assessed. The government have saved £££ billions making it virtually impossible to claim. Those who have managed to claim a disability benefit though then choose between receiving the benefits money or instead having a leased car on the motability scheme. They pay for the lease car out of the money they would have so it's not free and it's no extra burden on the country as that money, if not being spent on a lease car, would be the claimants anyway. Those who choose a car do so to make life a little easier. There are no free cars being given out !!

BonzoBanana I can't believe I've just come across this comment, I'm absolutely disgusted tbh.

So we should just let people that have mobility issues can't get help with a car to get to a doctor, hospital, go shopping etc? So what are they supposed to get? Taxis?

Second hand cars? That's great for the environment. You should think before you talk rubbish.

I really can't get to grips with your nonsense and will take this up with tomorrow if you want.

blacklabrador I agree with you 100%. Most of my friends was teenager single mothers who view child benefit/allowance as an alternative to going out to work. Also, Britain should copy other EU countries who limit benefits to asylum seekers.

didbygraham I'll admit I'm not totally up on the process but my basic understanding is there is a mobility allowance in disabled benefits that is used to pay for their car on the mobility scheme and typically they would lease a new car over 3 years and then at the end of it they would give back the car and have another new car after 3 years all at the tax payers expense. This process is not only hugely expensive to tax payers but also hugely damaging to the economy as most cars are imported. Cars should be good for up to a a 12 year lifespan if you buy a reliable efficient car like many Japanese brand UK manufactured cars. The state should not be giving people the choice of car they should at least be beneficial to the economy. In the real world you have to have a very good wage to buy or lease a new car ever 3 years and its hugely wasteful of money. The whole scheme needs review. People are sympathetic to the situation of disabled people so sometimes benefits are too generous and too expensive.

I don't think the disabled should have a brand new car every 3 years when other people are dying because they can't get cancer treatment or children are malnourished etc. You have to set priorities especially as we are servicing more and more debt so there is less money to go around.

I totally understand that for those disabled working there should be perhaps tax breaks or help to modify an existing car for their use where a vehicle is critical for getting to their job.

There is about £150k of debt on every single person's head in this country, government debt, pension deficits, local council debt etc. Servicing this debt is getting more and more difficult. We are heading to a default and will need an IMF bailout. Even in this election no one is talking about paying back this debt, returning to a trading surplus and running the economy well. It's just complete madness of both politicians and the general public.

didbygraham I am in total agreement, sadly some people do not understand the whole situation people find themselves in especially if you have a disability.

If we were to stop overseas aid , and paying millions of pounds a day on hotel's for illegal immigrants we would be able to look after these people in need better.

sallylester1 About 90% of the African population don't even have water security and the water they drink is often polluted with sewage, industrial waste and full of bacteria and other dangers. I'm all for reviewing foreign aid but kids in Africa are dying in huge numbers due to the dangers of their water and starvation. I just think we have to get realistic spending billions of pounds on new cars for the disabled is unaffordable. I remember years ago the horrible cars the disabled were able to get, little two stroke single person vehicles which I think were loaned to disabled people.

However now we have gone so far from that, with brand new modified vehicles that most working people in this country cannot afford. It is completely unsustainable. Ultimately we have become a much poorer country and have to deal with that reality. £4 billion a year it could be more would be better spent on creating assets within this country like affordable housing. Re-purposing older buildings into smaller flats so we can reduce the huge £50 billion a year paid to private landlords. If each flat cost £50k on average either repurposed or built from scratch. £4 billion would provide 80,000 homes and provide assets to this country for decades meaning a saving of payments to private landlords of £0.8 billion a year and that money would be saved every year.

BonzoBanana We are not a poor country. There is £££ billions wasted by government monthly on rubbish schemes and silly ideas. Much more than the annual cost of benefits to the disabled to help them live an independent life. Why would you want to discriminate against the disabled in a society that claims to be full of equal opportunities? How can they be equal if not allowed to choose how they spend their money? Throw them all on the scrap heap and be done with it why don't you ? Just think for a minute about why the government does these sort of things with demonising those claiming benefits trying to survive in the UK ! They are deflecting the focus away from all the waste in funding they are making, whilst stealing tax payers money to line their own bank accounts through £££ billions in the PPE waste scandal, and the Nightingale hospitals that were not used, hotels, council homes and benefits to migrants flooding here from all over, and not just the refugees, etc, etc. They can waste more UK tax payers money in a couple of months than a whole years worth of disability benefits. Allow the disabled to choose how they want to spend their cash to make life bearable, if they need a lease car on the charitable scheme it makes no difference to you or me.

tmcelligott What figures have you got to back that up?

I don't agree with a lot of what the tax payers alliance say with regard low tax especially as they have done good research into the UK debt levels which clearly show its impossible to have low taxation when there is so much debt to pay. However they have analysed UK debt levels very well.

www.taxpayersalliance.com/briefing_the_real_national_debt_2024#:~:text=The%20real%20national%20debt%2C%20in,basis%2C%20it%20is%20%C2%A3180%2C534.

You can see total debt is about 12 Trillion pounds and now about £180k per person.

We need to stop pretending we are a rich nation, just because we have a large GDP figure doesn't mean we are rich it is just an indicator of how much money is swishing about in the economy and much of that is borrowed money. We can all see the UK is not manufacturing anywhere near as much as we used to or producing as many crops. Surely we can all see when we go shopping how little is UK sourced nowadays. If we were rich we wouldn't need to be borrowing such huge amounts of money and we will continue to get poorer and more indebted until we turn around the economy and return to a trading surplus. We have to stop fantasy politics and get back to reality politics.

Pjran While I don't disagree with you in principle the 'better off than working' bit always seems unlikely for most as it's not generous if the only thing you can claim is for unemployment. If you have kids then obviously it is a lot more generous and if you get your rent paid etc.. Some people only get something around £90 a week to live on because they don't have children and don't claim rent. Others live in London with a lot of children, a medical condition and a large rented house and can be approaching a total bill to the tax payer of £100k a year. £90 a week is less than £5K a year and I think the minimum wage you would be up around £12-15k per year.

I know a woman who is on zero hour contracts and not getting a lot of work at the moment and the benefits she receives seems very small so she may be faced into looking into getting food parcels etc out of desperation.

I personally think we need to be looking at the very high payments of benefits rather than the very low payments. I think its more important that people don't starve rather than have a new car every 3 years.

BonzoBanana sorry I should have explained that I meant unemployed with children seem to get lots of benefits.

Food banks seem a lifeline for many.

Pjran that's not true it's not like benefits are just handed out you have to jump through hoops to get it and 1 slip up and they are stopped

SueWard They have to choose to spend their PIP money on cars but there are motability schemes setup to make that an easy process. Personal Independence Payments can be up to £800 a month I think and are tax free plus you can claim them even if working with a high wage or extremely rich. There are 3.4 million people claiming PIP. These payments cost about £25 billion a year but expected to cost about £30 billion by 2030. These figures are completely unsustainable of course and provided through borrowing adding hugely to the national debt year by year. The average PIP payments a year is about £7K per person.

In many countries like Germany and Switzerland you have to pay into a compulsory disability insurance scheme before you can claim disability payments. I'm not sure how it works if you are born disabled but non-disabled people are forced to pay insurance in the event they become disabled later.

BonzoBanana Up to £800 a month, no doubt so many BMWs and Range Rovers with disable badges. As much as I feel sorry for disabled people I do think it's a lot of money, and why disabled person does need a flashy motor in the first place.

BonzoBanana how much of their PIP do they pay for cars. How can disabled people live on £800 per month?

BonzoBanana Thank your for your information.

Pjran It's additional £800, plus any other benefits one can get.

From gov website

'There is a wide range of disability-related financial support, including benefits, tax credits, payments, grants and concessions. Some benefits you might get are: Universal Credit. Personal Independence Payment ( PIP ) or Disability Living Allowance ( DLA )

Depending on your circumstances, you might also be able to get:

industrial Injuries Benefit if you’re disabled as a result of work

Constant Attendance Allowance if you need daily care and attention because of a disability'

As you see there is a lot support on top of brand new, modified car.

BonzoBanana I wish you would stop demonising disabled people. You are sounding like someone at the DWP trying to encourage others to do the same with your 'up to, average and about' figures plucked out of thin air.

Nobody is able to claim £800 a month in payments for PIP. The Gov.uk website shows it being much different to your claims at just over £700. And, that top rate only goes to a small proportion of claimants. Only those on the higher rate of mobility are able to use the charitable Motability scheme. Not all claimants are entitled to be included for a lease car in exchange for their mobility benefits in any case.

PIP amounts April 2024 on

Lower weekly rate Higher weekly rate

Daily living part £72.65 £108.55

Mobility part £28.70 £75.75

Please stop spreading your rubbish.

tmcelligott £108.55 + £75.75- up to a maximum of £184.30 a week – if you receive both the daily living and mobility parts of PIP at the higher rate. So overall almost £800 a month, which OP claimed as up to £800, not sure why you call it rubbish.

Bear in mind it's only PIP and people can also claim other benefits.

'How does Universal Credit affect PIP and DLA? If you're getting Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or Disability Living Allowance (DLA), it will continue to be paid along with your Universal Credit payment. PIP is gradually replacing the Disability Living Allowance.'

Now add a Council house or any other social house paid partially or in full and it's not that bad, hence they can afford brand new motors. Best part is that some claim PIP on fake agoraphobia or anxiety.

And now if you are hardworking person who pay mortgage/rent, pay bills, pay finance on car if can afford, don't you think that benefit system is a bit generous. Bring back reliant robins not BMW's paid by gov. If you work and pay taxes your money goes to fund all these. No doubt council tax goes up every year.

Regarding your other comment about immigration, seems like Brexit didn't work out.

SebK84 That is a bit rubbish. You make it read like you can get more than one disability benefit by saying "you might also be able to get" additional benefits. You cannot claim them all. Nobody on Attendance Allowance can claim for a motability lease car for instance. You are able to claim one disability benefit depending on why you are claiming. DLA is being phased out for those claimants and only for children there on. It's not additional to. Industrial injuries benefit is only offered to those who became ill or disabled through injury at work. PIP is not an unemployed benefit, it is available to anyone disabled who might be able to make a claim, working or not, it's not guaranteed at all as there is a big assessment to pass. If you are unemployed and also disabled you can claim Universal Credit and PIP but it's not guaranteed you will get it or how much. It's down to how much help you need rather than having a disability itself.

tmcelligott Have a look below, especially at exemptions from the cap, especially at WTC.

source www.disabilityrightsuk.org/resources/benefit-cap

The benefit cap is:

Within Greater London

£326.29 a week if you are a single person (with no children)

£486.98 a week in all other cases

Outside Greater London

£283.71 a week if you are a single person (with no children)

£423.46 a week in all other cases

Now best part:

Exemptions from the cap

You are exempt from the cap if you or anyone in your household (a partner or dependent child or qualifying young person) get any of the following:

• adult disability payment;
• Armed Forces Compensation scheme guaranteed income payment;
• armed forces independence payment;
• attendance allowance;
• carer’s allowance or carer support payment;
• child disability payment;
• disability living allowance;
• guardian’s allowance;
• housing benefit - if you are living in ‘specified’ accommodation;
• industrial injuries benefits;
• personal independence payment;
• war pension; or
• war widow's or widower’s pension

• the employment and support allowance support component; or
• working tax credit (this will still apply if you work enough hours to qualify for working tax credit but are not paid it because your income is too high).

SebK84 Again no. It's not almost £800 a month. If you want exact amount for the top payment available it is £737.72. That is nearer to £700 than £800. That's why it is rubbish the OP and yourself can't count.

Now you are making up nonsense. There will always be some people who make up a story but the assessments they take stop those getting through. You get more dishonest MP's and ministers accessing funds than those attempting to claim a benefit they are not entitled to. What has a council house got to do with disability benefits? Who can afford brand new motors? The disabled can? The government do not supply brand new BMW's to the disabled. There is a list of vehicles you can lease in exchange for the mobility benefit you would have instead. These cars are exchanged after 3 years. Nobody is given new cars. Many people who are disabled also have mortgages to pay. Do you want them to work or not? You are a kick them while they are down and kick them when they are up person. Disabled are unable to please you at all aren't they?

You really have an issue with disabled people but that is what the government wants you to be like as they speak about the wasted funds, it's deflecting the bigger issues away from themselves.

SebK84 What has any of that got to do with this thread on disability payments? You are generalising now. I am not digressing into that, I need my tea now. Have a nice evening !

tmcelligott How many days in a month? 30 or 31 if we not taking into consideration February.

Now max. £184.3 X 4 + ((£184.3/7)x2) = £789.85 for 30 days, or around £815 for 31 days. Month has more than 4 weeks is it not.

tmcelligott Nobody is given new cars. - Not given but leased for 3 years and then another brand new car leased again. How different is that to PCP finance except that disable person pays with the PIP payment.

The government do not supply brand new BMW's to the disabled - Again Incorrect. BMW's available on Motability / leased.

www.bmw.co.uk/content/dam/bmw/marketGB/bmw_co_uk/buying/new-cars/motability/BMW_Motability_Price_List_Q1_2024_Customer.pdf.asset.1703846204439.pdf

You really have an issue with disabled people - I don't have an issue with disabled people, only with the fact that some abuse the system disabled or not. If I was disabled then I would rather pay for other things before an expensive car, as spending all allowance on a leased car makes me wonder how those people can afford other things. And again if you can afford all your payment to be used on expensive car then you don't need that help.

Same goes for those occupying council houses and/or claiming benefits when they don't really need to and are able to work

What has any of that got to do with this thread on disability payments? - Info came from website about disability rights, and shows what other benefit those with disability can get and also what to do to lift the benefit cap.

I am not digressing into that, I need my tea now. Have a nice evening ! - You started it. Have a good evening too.

Pjran PIP is separate to other benefits I believe so £800 wouldn't be the total benefit but that is the maximum PIP payment they could get on top of other benefits. I don't claim to be an expert on it just looked at the normal government information sites and other sites that create summaries of the benefits. You could be working or unemployed and get PIP. If you are working you have your normal wage and if unemployed presumably normal unemployment benefits.

tmcelligott £737.72 is every 4 weeks so times by 13 to get the yearly amount and then divide by 12 to get the monthly amount which is £799.20. That is definitely closer to £800 than £700.

Obviously my complaint is the PIP system itself which is ridiculously expensive and generous and unaffordable. However my secondary complaint is 200,000 mostly imported cars doing huge damage to the UK economy with leasing being a ridiculous way of buying such cars. The government should be negotiating exclusively with a factory in the UK like Toyota who provide reliable cars with very low maintenance requirements and these cars should be owned by the government and loaned to people so they fully control the process and maybe these cars could be economically used for 15 years possibly more.

EmmaWright762 they do have a choice tho get the money or car it's either one but as some say yes they are brand new cars that gets replaced every 3 years they pay for insurance and tax on them too

Leannexxx I would like to know what's happening with cars after 3 years, and why they must have a brand new car every 3 years or so.

SebK84 that's down to the government they don't ask for brand new cars but the second hand cars get sold on

Tink63 plus most pensioners pay tax on their pensions and savings, so still adding to the public purse.

Tink63 "most people on benefits have never worked a day or paid any taxes"

I don't suppose you have a credible source for that?

WayneNewma41359 They are done every so often already

WayneNewma41359 Does that include mps?

SilverSurfer I'm not saying this as a rich person myself but the tax avoidance bill is just a political football. If you have your tax base in another country that is completely legal under international law so there is nothing you can do about that and rich people pay tax on their yearly income not their outstanding wealth they have accumulated over the years and paid tax on each year previously. Of course there are people that fiddle the books but these tend to be low earners, smaller businesses who do their own taxes. Larger businesses and rich people have accountants who have to follow a industry code of conduct or lose their license to be an accountant. Of course again an accountant would know exactly how to reduce taxation using the best taxation rules for their client. I think the issue is higher tax rates for the rich have gone down over the years and we need to start increasing them again. However this wouldn't in anyway pay for the benefits bill which is utterly huge as you would only be getting lets say 2-5% extra tax from the higher wage earners who make up a minority of tax payers. I mean if you got an extra couple of grand tax on average out of lets say 100,000 people that is 200 million pounds and insignificant compared to the tens of billions spent on benefits. Also again some of these people may decide to move their tax base out of the UK so you could actually end up with less tax being paid.

Ultimately we have to correct the problems of the economy. If the general population are importing far too much and doing economic damage to the country its pointless focusing on the rich paying a little more tax we have to tackle the cause of the problems in our economy. You don't sort out a badly run company just by taxing the boss a bit more you have to make structural changes to that company so it is no longer loss making and controls its costs.