Pay Doctors More so They Stay?
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Should we pay Doctors more so they'll stay in the UK?
Amid reports of over 15,000 doctors leaving the UK last year and the significant cost to the NHS to replace them, the question arises: Is it time to consider increasing doctors' salaries to retain them?
Source: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/more-nhs-doctors-will-go-abroad-bma-warns-6k2vvxf5f
I don't think paying doctors more money will resolve the shortage. I think it is the political correction that is the doctors' main problem.
jam45 It's more suggested as a way to stop doctors leaving the UK for better pay
Could be not enough people would like to put the effort into it to become one as you'll need a good education go to collage even uni and most people don't want to do that not saying all am sure they are people out there who would but yeah.
We need to get back to training our own doctors from within the UK. Importing doctors who send a high percentage of their wages outside the country is incredibly damaging to our economy. A third of doctors in the UK were born outside the UK, it's a staggering figure especially as they are typically the highest paid staff in the NHS after higher levels of management.
BonzoBanana There are an awful lot of people here who send their wage/salary/money out of the country. Money earned here should, in the main, be spent here because it causes a huge imbalance to the economy.
I am currently reading a series of books about the Viking raids circa 10th century. The connection being that the king would constantly pay them to go away, cartloads of silver which practically bankrupted the country and caused hardship. Of course they broke their oaths and kept coming back for more.
Ok but the modern version is keep paying more and hands will keep being held out for more and we are held to ransom by striking and leaving/retiring. The more we want the more inflation and products and services cost more. It's a vicious circle.
My current chat topic is about Poirot. Back then silk stockings cost 2 shillings which is now equivalent to 10p!!!
If a train driver can earn 65k he has no right to ask for more but it's the old old story, the more you have, the more you want, no one is ever content.
I think nurses should be paid more as well as doctors. We have a shortage of both in the UK. The fact that so many doctors and nurses from other countries have been made unwelcome due the governments stance on immigration and Brexit which has made an already struggling situtation worse. The push to create private medical care similar to the American's is unacceptable and although the NHS was initially created to help the UK after WWII it has become so popular that the concensus do not want it to go. The other problems which need addressing are outsourcing, agency staff and too many overpaid managerial position in the NHS.
Before COVID our surgery had 6 doctors, no there is 2, it's impossible to get a face to face appointment
SamGoodship yes and they were even worse, "healthcare first" wish I'd have read reviews about them, they aren't very good
I think doctors and nurses should be paid more as how can it be right that I earn near the same wage as them and yet I’m not saving lives or anywhere near as stressful. It’s not right.
I believe the salaries have to be competitive with other world economies. Why are doctors and nurses going to Canada, gulf, Australia, New Zealand? Simple facts... Better pay and a better life. Why shouldn't they? It's a free world after all. The solution isn't to make them stay, it is to make things nice enough for them to happily stay.
Lynibis sure. As we (I'm a doctor btw) have learned that claps do not pay bills, we all know cost of living is going higher, rents are increasing, all utilities have gone up... How long do you think doctors and nurses are to rely on their good will and passion?
It's a profession, and it should be treated like a profession. Replace doctors with any other profession (banking, finance, lorry drivers, train drivers, athletes) and you realize that salaries do need to be competitive.
Where does the money come from is a separate debate. We can argue about private, semi private, insurance, all funded by government models of health care but this wasn't what the post was about. If you want the workers to stay, make job satisfaction higher and pay them better. Simple.
mkashif I agree. There are lots of things that could make the job itself less stressful. I probably spoke out of turn as I haven't a clue what medics are paid (I don't believe the newspapers on hardly anything) but we all tend to think of such professionals being highly paid. I certainly think they should be paid lots more than bus/train/lorry drivers who don't have to spend 7 years and more qualifying.
PS I should also have clarified that it is not the medics etc who make money from private medicine as such but the companies who i do feel overcharge. My DIL recently had a £12,000 back op which was through her work insurance but I can't for the life of me understand why it costs so much.
Lynibis not at all. It's these debates that help us understand each other so I am happy that you are asking these questions. In your comment above you said that train drivers earn 65k ( I don't know the in and out of their contract I'll be honest) but I'm a doctor with 12 yrs experience and I earn 55k a year. I'll welcome anyone to help me balance my books to be honest 
mkashif thank you for clarifying. I have always believed those whose usefulness to society outweighs others should be remunerated fairly. I do get a bit cross with those who have not bothered studying etc and do basic jobs feel they should be paid well over average. I have never earned more than £25k (during last year before retirement) but have raised 2 sons, bought a house, run a car and lived to a decent standard. I just wish people would learn to budget.
mkashif I thought on top of your salary you also received (based on my friend that is a midwife within the NHS) a yearly employer (tax payer) pension contribution of 23.7% which on £55K is a further £13K so your annual salary and benefits package is £68K, if you’re treated like other NHS staff. I know from doing research after she told me that the doctors and nurses in hospitals also get this contribution level. I’m envious of her as my employer’s contribution is 4% and before auto enrolment came in only 2% I’m 43 and have been working full time hours since I was 16, although she started work later that me she will have a much higher pension pot and be able to retire before me. (She also gets all her overtime hours paid, I’ve never been paid for any overtime in my sector it’s in your contract what you do it for free, I know of other private sectors where that’s also the case) I don’t begrudge her it, if you’ve got good base salary, paid overtime and can retire earlier than the private sector workers why would not you not stick with that job, she says it’s hard work like many other jobs, that’s not unique to her sector.
Ironically yesterday I’ve had to go against my principles (as why should you pay twice we get taxed directly and indirectly heavily) and go to a private hospital to to get an answer to one of my chronic pain issues as for 5 years I’ve been battling ear and abdominal and leg pain as well as chronic diarrhoea (I’m writing this at now as my pain stops me from properly sleeping I get two hours tops, some nights I wouldn’t even be able to type as the pain becomes unbearable with dizziness and nausea) I’m only lucky I can work from home and do my work flexibility and do more hours on my better days otherwise I’d be completely screwed and have no money or home) as the NHS professionals I’ve come in contact with, prefer to let me suffer rather than help find out what’s wrong.
So in answer to the post, should we pay them more, based on my personal experience and hearing what my close family, friends and colleagues experiences it’s a big No too many of them have undiagnosed conditions, (& this is not just one county or trust they live in different counties/cities and all receive a poor level of care) they’ve health conditions affecting their quality of life or they’ve actually ended up in hospital because no one’s reacted quick enough to symptoms or as is the common case because they’ve either not been listened too or yet again fobbed off, this is at all levels of doctors/consultants
If that profession would start to care about the patients again and be more competent then my opinion would change. As I said this is based on real experiences. There will be some really good doctors out there somewhere and well done them for going against the system and doing a good job.
If the profession as a whole wants a cash pay rise take it out of the pension contribution pot as it won’t cost the taxpayer anymore money that way. I get annoyed that the media don’t comment on this when reporting the strikes.
I think private healthcare is the way forward because it should bring with it responsibility and accountability which it is severely lacking. Reduce the level of taxes and we will have the money to pay ourselves ultimately the economy will benefit more people will be well and in work.
That way the good doctors will get paid more as well and the incompetent uncaring ones will hopefully get fired
Gromit22 hi. Sorry that you have been battling with health related issues and struggling to find appropriate help and support. I'm reading and replying to this because I'm on call and at work. 2 sleepless members of the latest deals.
The employee contribution is the percentage of one's salary. So my salary has roughly 10-11 % taken out to add to the pension pot. Yes, employer contribution is also significant and that's why you won't see doctors complaining about pension scheme. That's one good perk. Although if you cash in early, this all gets taxed and the employer contribution goes away. Which unfortunately many doctors do in early years to make ends meet. I have had to opt out and cash in because of a pinch and a half. So has my wife (also full time doctor). So it's a luxury which at times we are unable to afford. At times. I do agree still that it is a good scheme.
See... Your employer contribution is terrible. And you should definitely aspire for a better benefit package. But that doesn't mean you should be envious of people who are getting a better deal. Punch up rather than down.
We all work hard. Why should you not get as good as a doctor or a nurse?
Again, why is your emplyes not paying overtime? It's not fair on you. Or anyone to work overtime and not expect better pay. But why not try make it better for the ones who don't get it?
I'm glad you get some advantage by working from home and flexible hours. However the way you are describing your pain and health issues clearly shows how important it is to you. Hear me out though... By paying NI and taxes, haven't you made a contract with the government? To provide quality health care? Why is it that people need to suffer and rely on health care professionals good will and compassion for relief. You have paid for it, you deserve better care. If you were paying me by all means you could have asked for answers. Shouldnt your anger be directed at the entity you have made a payment to?
I completely agree with the deterioration of health care in this country. And that's what we keep saying. Stop this exodus. Keep your doctors and nurses close. Make a reward system that asks the customer (patients) if they are satisfied.
More often than not, we are forced to finish lists, see this many people in this much time. Do you think your GP has decided "one issue in one appointment" policy or your scan will take 300 years? Or the surgeon decides hey I'll do this op next year because I'm getting some twisted fun out of it.
I love interacting with people as a person and as a doctor. The number of times I have had to pull myself away from a conversation only because I have so many other tasks to do.
I'm personally not at all in favour of private health care as we all see what happens if you let corporates go wild. But most definitely improved quality is needed. Maybe the answer is better pay and then the better quality doctors will stay. I know at least 2 consultants, very good friends and excellent clinicians in their fields who have left in the last year. See the world wants good doctors and nurses... The UK needs to be competitive to retain them.
Train our own doctors & nurses from our own country & make them sign to say that if they remain in full time employment within the NHS for 10 years then their student debt will be wiped off.
Bridget26 they can only train your own doctors if any of your locals come forward so you don't have to depend on foreign doctors and nurses
my daughter is a third year medical student and is already planning to go to Australia when qualified so her worklife isn't as stressful as being in the NHS here for more money too!!
They should be paid more as the job is so stressful and mentally demanding. We need to make the job attractive to the english students so they join it and bridge the gap. With this pay scale, They won't join, and we will keep running in circles.
For me I think the answer for nurses and doctors is to pay for their tuition but with that they have to sign a contract saying they will work for the nhs for a set amount of time like 5 years.
Government funding has changed and increasingly going towards antiGP / anti doctors program known as ARRS (additional role Reimbursement scheme)...as the name says, it is for additional role (not for GPs, doctors, Nurses) and not for keeping current force into action.....it was initially designed to bring in more helping hands but has now shown to be replacing GPs specially, with Physician Asoosicates or PAs. GP Surgeries, been having ANPs, Specialist Nurses for ages but this new payment model (ARRS) which is specially against GPs, Doctors and Nurses, is making Doctors to leave the country. GP Surgeries are getting closed down permanently because government is ìpushing for ARRS roles (PAs) and this is effecting major trained doctors to leave the country...yes, money is also much better in mideast,Canada, Australia and USA but doctors stayed in UK for studies, family and better position on the globe....but that is changing as I know GPs without jobs or asked to do less hours as Surgeries cannot afford them and had to rely on PAs, who are free to GP Surgeries as the PA pay is coming from this ARRS program...this additional funding, if can go to GP Surgeries to decide on their own or to hire another salaried GP, that can still changed the situation.
No I understood they had to serve a time in NHS after qualifying but they seem to be able to quit regardless nowadays AND no they earn a good salary fom NHS plus all their sideline ones.
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