Do You Think Richard III Killed His Nephews?
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I watched a riveting programme last night where the woman responsible for finding Richard III's remains in a Leicester car park was recently researching into whether he killed his nephews Edward and Richard, sons of his brother Edward IV.
She enlisted the help of Judge Rob Rinder and they travelled Europe speaking with medieval experts and were shown documents that had not seen the light of day for around 500 years.
I have long believed through my own studies that Richard did not kill his nephews and at the end of this programme the documents that would indicate he didn't were verified by eminent professors as being genuine. The
Tudor propaganda machine had to sully his name in order to vindicate their own claim to the throne. Even Shakespeare was guilty of currying favour with the Tudors by vilifying the House of York. He deliberately wrote plays to curry favour with Elizabeth I and what better way than to justify the Tudors right to the throne? There is another interesting documentary about the Bard himself currently showing on TV and I learned a lot I did not know about him, apart from the fact that he left his wife his 'second best bed'!
It wouldn't surprise me, no different from what some Roman emperors did to make sure they stayed in power ect...
martinlufc5637 well as I said above, the evidence is now overwhelming that he didn't. I am positive that if all parties met in a modern courtroom he would be found not guilty.
The Romans were no better than historical Nazis and intermarriage was common leading to madness, paranoia etc. They were hundreds of years before William the Conqueror.
There are very few examples of British monarchs killing rivals for the throne, let alone family. Henry I possibly arranged the hunting 'accident' that killed his brother and nasty king John is rumoured to have executed his brother's son but that's about it.
telmel yes true. But it isn't only the royals. Big business, dictators, even unscrupulous 'commoners', none of them ever learn the lessons of history and to think mankind is still indulging in war in the 21st century does my head in. All the leaders safe and sound sending countless people to their deaths in the name of what.......trying to take over another country or chucking a whole nation out. Feuds that are hundreds of years old still being fought over.
But I have studied Richard III a lot and he was very close to his brother Edward so even back then I cannot imagine he would kill his brother's sons. He even had his nephew's coronation planned until some busybody priest came along and just on his word with no real proof this priest said Edward had been married previously and his children were therefore illegitimate so could not inherit the throne. Just as likely to have been Henry VII who set that up so he could battle for the throne, which he did, and won on Bosworth field.
I saw a little of the programme you’re talking about but wasn’t able to watch much. It is interesting how things are remembered in history but it’s also worrying cause it shows the “facts” can be changed
jms19 yes and believe something to be true for centuries and then find it's not. I watched a brilliant documentary about him when they studied his remains. He had scoliosis but was not hunchbacked as the Tudors would have us believe. A young man with scoliosis volunteered to learn to ride a horse, use a sword and they made him a suit of armour proving that Richard was capable of battling. In fact the young man said he was more comfy on the old fashioned saddle as it supported him better.
jam45 in England all evidence that showed Henry VII in a bad light was destroyed. However there is a trail through Europe the first being a receipt for weaponry signed by an accountant of the time ordered by the sister of Richard (Margaret of Burgundy, whose stepson was the Holy Roman Emperor) in order to invade England by the young prince, which did happen in Stoke. I won't go into the whole 2 hour programme but those who haven't seen it should maybe reserve judgement. Archives are vast repositories of documents and cannot possibly have all been scrutinised all over Europe by modern professors and scientists. I have studied history for decades but am an amateur. However, I was convinced long before this programme that Richard was not guilty as the boys were deemed illegitimate and he was already on the throne. If you study it or watch the programme and still believe him guilty then of course I respect that if you can show the same degree of proof. But most people don't like history for some reason and dispute new evidence preferring to hold on to schoolday learning. I know you generally reply to my comments scathingly, the last one not allowing my opinion but allowing the one I answered, but I respect yours and will leave it at that, when all is said and done neither of us can change history.
Lynibis Oh dear Lynibis I didn't mean to offend you in anyway. I am aware from your comments that you are an intellectual (yes, I do know the meaning of the word) person with many, many years of various life experience. I have to admit I hated history at school and couldn't wait for the subject to end. My favourite subject at school was learning Italian, which I mastered easily. I can't speak it now. So do accept my sincere apology if I come across as "unpleasant", which I hoping I am not.
jam45 thank you so much for such a nice comment, it has really lifted my day. I am first to admit that the written word can easily be misunderstood.
I did a bit of German at school but have never been able to get on with languages so I admire those who do.
I have no idea why I am so passionate about history, even at primary school I loved learning about castles and kings. Once read I seem to remember, which I cannot say about any other subject. English is my 2nd favourite subject so I have melded the two and am finally, in retirement, finishing a pirate novel set in the late 1600s to early 1700s. Have the story but have lots of research to do. Have a good day.
Lynibis Lovely hearing from you so soon Lynibis. I just thought you would ignore my opinion. I won't be making anymore negative comments on you or the others. Glad to read you have finished writing your novel and good luck in your research and fingers crossed it will come out and hopefully be a best seller.
I don't actually sit down to watch TV anymore, but I do have a TV in the kitchen, and had that programme on after I'd seen it in the TV listings, I found it absolutely fascinating, and now I am absolutely convinced that he didn't kill them, although I didn't think he had in the first place to be honest!
I think they did that programme extremely well, so many history programmes are droning, stuffy and boring and this was the complete opposite, it kept my interest, I think Philippa Langley and Rob Rinder made a good team, I'd like to see them doing something else together!
JoTarpley so glad to hear from someone else who saw the programme. Yes, it just reinforced everything I already thought. I may have mentioned before that my favourite book written over 30 years ago by Sharon K. Penman (now deceased) is The Sunne in Splendour in which she puts forward her own ideas of who was guilty if they were indeed murdered.
The documents were convincing but what resonated with me was Henry's efforts to find the Princes AFTER accusing Richard of murdering them.
xJoTarpley yep I need a break occasionally and took a couple of weeks out this month. I wish LD could list our chat topics as they do with entered, saved etc. So frustrating when you can't refer back to something. I remember asking the membership for help getting a copy for my granddaughter, particularly the 30th anniversary edition. Some of the prices were ridiculous, I think one was just shy of £100. I had lots of help and ended up getting it from one of those used book sites.......for £9. It said it was good condition so I was a bit worried but when it arrived it was near perfect, hard cover. I wrote her a letter to go inside wishing her joy of it and that she would pass it to her child eventually, he was born last month, so yes I am a great grandma!!!
I didn't explain in last comment, it is historical fiction but fact based and with copious historical notes. From our last 'chats' I am sure you will enjoy.
Lynibis I looked it up a little while ago Lyn, I was too curious to leave it long, it's got great reviews hasn't it, I'd love to read it but I need a 48 hour day as it is 
, I was so sad to see that she'd died from pneumonia at 75, a couple of years ago though!
A Great Grandma, WOW!! Congratulations!! 
x
Jerseydrew gosh hope you're not a defence lawyer......or are you? I am guessing you didn't read all the comments. Most historians now take the view he was innocent.
Lynibis nope. Interesting how things and points of view change. I'm not so sure. Wish we could find out what happened. Either way it's a sad story
Jerseydrew if you watch the documentary I mentioned I think you would find it very interesting. At the very least it would be even stevens. Just realised didn't give the title: The Princes in the Tower: The New Evidence. It was on channel 4 on Saturday 18th Nov.
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