What Would You Do about the Benefits Bill?

BonzoBanana how much of their PIP do they pay for cars. How can disabled people live on £800 per month?

BonzoBanana Thank your for your information.

Pjran It's additional £800, plus any other benefits one can get.

From gov website

'There is a wide range of disability-related financial support, including benefits, tax credits, payments, grants and concessions. Some benefits you might get are: Universal Credit. Personal Independence Payment ( PIP ) or Disability Living Allowance ( DLA )

Depending on your circumstances, you might also be able to get:

industrial Injuries Benefit if you’re disabled as a result of work

Constant Attendance Allowance if you need daily care and attention because of a disability'

As you see there is a lot support on top of brand new, modified car.

BonzoBanana I wish you would stop demonising disabled people. You are sounding like someone at the DWP trying to encourage others to do the same with your 'up to, average and about' figures plucked out of thin air.

Nobody is able to claim £800 a month in payments for PIP. The Gov.uk website shows it being much different to your claims at just over £700. And, that top rate only goes to a small proportion of claimants. Only those on the higher rate of mobility are able to use the charitable Motability scheme. Not all claimants are entitled to be included for a lease car in exchange for their mobility benefits in any case.

PIP amounts April 2024 on

Lower weekly rate Higher weekly rate

Daily living part £72.65 £108.55

Mobility part £28.70 £75.75

Please stop spreading your rubbish.

tmcelligott £108.55 + £75.75- up to a maximum of £184.30 a week – if you receive both the daily living and mobility parts of PIP at the higher rate. So overall almost £800 a month, which OP claimed as up to £800, not sure why you call it rubbish.

Bear in mind it's only PIP and people can also claim other benefits.

'How does Universal Credit affect PIP and DLA? If you're getting Personal Independence Payment (PIP) or Disability Living Allowance (DLA), it will continue to be paid along with your Universal Credit payment. PIP is gradually replacing the Disability Living Allowance.'

Now add a Council house or any other social house paid partially or in full and it's not that bad, hence they can afford brand new motors. Best part is that some claim PIP on fake agoraphobia or anxiety.

And now if you are hardworking person who pay mortgage/rent, pay bills, pay finance on car if can afford, don't you think that benefit system is a bit generous. Bring back reliant robins not BMW's paid by gov. If you work and pay taxes your money goes to fund all these. No doubt council tax goes up every year.

Regarding your other comment about immigration, seems like Brexit didn't work out.

SebK84 That is a bit rubbish. You make it read like you can get more than one disability benefit by saying "you might also be able to get" additional benefits. You cannot claim them all. Nobody on Attendance Allowance can claim for a motability lease car for instance. You are able to claim one disability benefit depending on why you are claiming. DLA is being phased out for those claimants and only for children there on. It's not additional to. Industrial injuries benefit is only offered to those who became ill or disabled through injury at work. PIP is not an unemployed benefit, it is available to anyone disabled who might be able to make a claim, working or not, it's not guaranteed at all as there is a big assessment to pass. If you are unemployed and also disabled you can claim Universal Credit and PIP but it's not guaranteed you will get it or how much. It's down to how much help you need rather than having a disability itself.

tmcelligott Have a look below, especially at exemptions from the cap, especially at WTC.

source www.disabilityrightsuk.org/resources/benefit-cap

The benefit cap is:

Within Greater London

£326.29 a week if you are a single person (with no children)

£486.98 a week in all other cases

Outside Greater London

£283.71 a week if you are a single person (with no children)

£423.46 a week in all other cases

Now best part:

Exemptions from the cap

You are exempt from the cap if you or anyone in your household (a partner or dependent child or qualifying young person) get any of the following:

• adult disability payment;
• Armed Forces Compensation scheme guaranteed income payment;
• armed forces independence payment;
• attendance allowance;
• carer’s allowance or carer support payment;
• child disability payment;
• disability living allowance;
• guardian’s allowance;
• housing benefit - if you are living in ‘specified’ accommodation;
• industrial injuries benefits;
• personal independence payment;
• war pension; or
• war widow's or widower’s pension

• the employment and support allowance support component; or
• working tax credit (this will still apply if you work enough hours to qualify for working tax credit but are not paid it because your income is too high).

SebK84 Again no. It's not almost £800 a month. If you want exact amount for the top payment available it is £737.72. That is nearer to £700 than £800. That's why it is rubbish the OP and yourself can't count.

Now you are making up nonsense. There will always be some people who make up a story but the assessments they take stop those getting through. You get more dishonest MP's and ministers accessing funds than those attempting to claim a benefit they are not entitled to. What has a council house got to do with disability benefits? Who can afford brand new motors? The disabled can? The government do not supply brand new BMW's to the disabled. There is a list of vehicles you can lease in exchange for the mobility benefit you would have instead. These cars are exchanged after 3 years. Nobody is given new cars. Many people who are disabled also have mortgages to pay. Do you want them to work or not? You are a kick them while they are down and kick them when they are up person. Disabled are unable to please you at all aren't they?

You really have an issue with disabled people but that is what the government wants you to be like as they speak about the wasted funds, it's deflecting the bigger issues away from themselves.

SebK84 What has any of that got to do with this thread on disability payments? You are generalising now. I am not digressing into that, I need my tea now. Have a nice evening !

tmcelligott How many days in a month? 30 or 31 if we not taking into consideration February.

Now max. £184.3 X 4 + ((£184.3/7)x2) = £789.85 for 30 days, or around £815 for 31 days. Month has more than 4 weeks is it not.

tmcelligott Nobody is given new cars. - Not given but leased for 3 years and then another brand new car leased again. How different is that to PCP finance except that disable person pays with the PIP payment.

The government do not supply brand new BMW's to the disabled - Again Incorrect. BMW's available on Motability / leased.

www.bmw.co.uk/content/dam/bmw/marketGB/bmw_co_uk/buying/new-cars/motability/BMW_Motability_Price_List_Q1_2024_Customer.pdf.asset.1703846204439.pdf

You really have an issue with disabled people - I don't have an issue with disabled people, only with the fact that some abuse the system disabled or not. If I was disabled then I would rather pay for other things before an expensive car, as spending all allowance on a leased car makes me wonder how those people can afford other things. And again if you can afford all your payment to be used on expensive car then you don't need that help.

Same goes for those occupying council houses and/or claiming benefits when they don't really need to and are able to work

What has any of that got to do with this thread on disability payments? - Info came from website about disability rights, and shows what other benefit those with disability can get and also what to do to lift the benefit cap.

I am not digressing into that, I need my tea now. Have a nice evening ! - You started it. Have a good evening too.

Pjran PIP is separate to other benefits I believe so £800 wouldn't be the total benefit but that is the maximum PIP payment they could get on top of other benefits. I don't claim to be an expert on it just looked at the normal government information sites and other sites that create summaries of the benefits. You could be working or unemployed and get PIP. If you are working you have your normal wage and if unemployed presumably normal unemployment benefits.

tmcelligott £737.72 is every 4 weeks so times by 13 to get the yearly amount and then divide by 12 to get the monthly amount which is £799.20. That is definitely closer to £800 than £700.

Obviously my complaint is the PIP system itself which is ridiculously expensive and generous and unaffordable. However my secondary complaint is 200,000 mostly imported cars doing huge damage to the UK economy with leasing being a ridiculous way of buying such cars. The government should be negotiating exclusively with a factory in the UK like Toyota who provide reliable cars with very low maintenance requirements and these cars should be owned by the government and loaned to people so they fully control the process and maybe these cars could be economically used for 15 years possibly more.

EmmaWright762 they do have a choice tho get the money or car it's either one but as some say yes they are brand new cars that gets replaced every 3 years they pay for insurance and tax on them too

Leannexxx I would like to know what's happening with cars after 3 years, and why they must have a brand new car every 3 years or so.

SebK84 that's down to the government they don't ask for brand new cars but the second hand cars get sold on

Tink63 plus most pensioners pay tax on their pensions and savings, so still adding to the public purse.

Tink63 "most people on benefits have never worked a day or paid any taxes"

I don't suppose you have a credible source for that?

WayneNewma41359 They are done every so often already

WayneNewma41359 Does that include mps?

SilverSurfer I'm not saying this as a rich person myself but the tax avoidance bill is just a political football. If you have your tax base in another country that is completely legal under international law so there is nothing you can do about that and rich people pay tax on their yearly income not their outstanding wealth they have accumulated over the years and paid tax on each year previously. Of course there are people that fiddle the books but these tend to be low earners, smaller businesses who do their own taxes. Larger businesses and rich people have accountants who have to follow a industry code of conduct or lose their license to be an accountant. Of course again an accountant would know exactly how to reduce taxation using the best taxation rules for their client. I think the issue is higher tax rates for the rich have gone down over the years and we need to start increasing them again. However this wouldn't in anyway pay for the benefits bill which is utterly huge as you would only be getting lets say 2-5% extra tax from the higher wage earners who make up a minority of tax payers. I mean if you got an extra couple of grand tax on average out of lets say 100,000 people that is 200 million pounds and insignificant compared to the tens of billions spent on benefits. Also again some of these people may decide to move their tax base out of the UK so you could actually end up with less tax being paid.

Ultimately we have to correct the problems of the economy. If the general population are importing far too much and doing economic damage to the country its pointless focusing on the rich paying a little more tax we have to tackle the cause of the problems in our economy. You don't sort out a badly run company just by taxing the boss a bit more you have to make structural changes to that company so it is no longer loss making and controls its costs.

SilverSurfer actually it is now the incomers that are having more children than the indigenous population so we are becoming a minority on both sides.

Lynibis I hope they don’t take this thread down as its the best chat ever on here.

Pjran I do like a political chat but I won't contribute as so many times I have made a comment, had notification of a reply and when I click the whole topic has gone.

suevernon1968 If you get the higher amount you would add the daily living part and mobility part together then multiply by 52 and share by 12 to give the monthly amount. So that is £108.55+75.75 x52 /12 and ends up as £798.63.

BonzoBanana and if you choose to have the car you give up your £75.75

Glitterandgold That wouldn't work at all. It is one of those political statements that actually makes no sense in reality as tax avoidance isn't a big cost compared to the benefit bill. We have to accept as we become a poorer more indebted country that we have to make huge cost savings. It's not going after the disabled it just so happens the benefits for the disabled are some of the most extravagant and unaffordable and unfair to the general population. Leasing a brand new car every 3 years is not something that should be paid for by tax payers. PIP payments should be far less generous and cars should be loaned by the state, many of which should have a usable lifespan of up to 15 years.

BonzoBanana Perhaps not compared to the current benefits bill but still substantial id suspect. I actually don't disagree that brand new cars are unacceptable, that area could absolutely be managed far better, but for a disabled person a car could be a life line. Everyone deserves to live & not just exist. Many would go stir crazy without that lifeline. I'd be reluctant to remove it completely.

Why not chase the money wasted during Covid & the dodgy PIP contracts? Lets bring down NHS waiting lists, therefore getting all those waiting for treatment/ops back to work. Speculate to accumulate!

RegularComper91 I don't think its a black and white situation. I think the majority are far worse of being unemployed but in some situations you could be better off based on which benefits you can claim. There is extreme variation between the minimum you can get and the maximum you can get based on many variables. Some people are better off, most people are worse off I would say. The people who are better off could be sorted to a degree by only allowing benefits for one child only and only paying for a small single or double bedroom flat. If they live in somewhere like London or another expensive city then housing may only be available in a different area which is not so expensive for the state to provide.

RegularComper91 Still better than having no money at all, and no one is forced to stay unemployed their whole life. The support is for those which are in need not as a way of life and correct me if I am wrong but some live off benefits, plus few brag about how good benefit system is and what they are making, which makes me and probably some other hardworking people cringe.

I do believe that local JC offers free courses for those people seeking to go back to work. Unskilled people can also get a job in many fields like for example farming - fruit or veggies picking or construction as a labourer or a hod carrier, plus many other places, but willingness is a key to success.

SebK84 that’s exactly how I feel. I’m sure most of us know someone claiming benefits then abusing the system by working cash in hand. I could never report them though.

BonzoBanana Many people live in council houses worth millions in Inner London and pay little money for rent.

It's an old story from dailymail as an example www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5213069/2-2million-London-council-house-UKs-expensive.html